I just talked with an engine builder that told me the oil companys have removed zinc in MOST oils. He says this is creating camshaft failures on any new flat tappet cam that is being broken in and some with little miles on them.
Has anyone else heard of this yet?
first that i've heard of it..... thanks for the info tho
I've heard that before and was told to use Rotella diesel oil but have since been told that they took the zink out of that too ==shrug
yeah you are suppose to use break in lube i was told with these. or use royal purple or amsoil or something like that
It's true and has been causing problems for flat tappet cams, esp. cams with aggressive lobes.
You need a oil with a CI-4 rating, must say CI-4. CI-4 plus is not the same. Some will have both CI-4 and CI-4 plus and that is
ok.
Look for Valvoline 15w40 diesel oil, it will have a Cummins symbol on it. It has the CI-4 rating and it is what I use in all my flat tappet builds.
Low idle speed is also a cam killer.
G/L
Thanks for that info. The oil that shop is selling is $8.75 a quart.
Thats the first i've heard of it and really got my attention. I hope others catch this post before they KILL a brand new cam.
valvoline racing oil still has zinc in it.. look at the oil without zinc in it. it looks alot thinner. I have also heard of a rash lower end failures lately.
The reason i was given for the removal of zinc,was the newer motors mostly have roller lifters or roller cam followers. So the high pressure friction is lower. I guess they don;t feel that crankshaft bearings have a high friction rate.
To me,it just sounds like by not adding it, they have a way for the oil companies to squeeze more money from the consumer.
hmm, that could explain why my lower end went out twice.... i've heard of the camshaft problems with the zinc in the oil... but not the lower end yet...
ive never heard that. that sucks if its true
the valvoline vr-1 is good along with the rotella. u can also buy some break in lube from comp cams. i think it is like $10-15. i would rather spend the money on quality oil rather than a new motor!!
i heard valvoline vr 1 oil is good to use when breaking in a can. also a buddy of mine that owns a machine shop uses i believe it is called brad penn oil. only thing tho that has to be ordered no one around carries it in stock.
Quote from: 2000silverado on September 02, 2008, 09:23:51 PM
the valvoline vr-1 is good along with the rotella. u can also buy some break in lube from comp cams. i think it is like $10-15. i would rather spend the money on quality oil rather than a new motor!!
The Brad Penn oil is good but the VR-1 and Rotella have changed in the last year and do not have the same amount of Zinc as something with a CI-4 rating. Probably better than normal oil, but not much.
This only affects flat tappet cams, lower ends have no ill effects.
The Valvoline Premium Blue 15w40 oil should sell for about 12-13 a gallon.
valvoline vr 1 50wt is all i run, my motor has seven seasons of oval track racing on it, two track championships and two seasons in an openwheeled car with the rev limiter set at 7000 hittin it 60 times a night, now its in the bogger. used to change the oil every other night of racin now i change it every other bog.
but then again....i love my motor ;D
I just put a Melling cam in my motor and they recommended Rotella T. I did the prescribed break in proceedure and so far I've had no problems.
A couple of replys mention using Break in lube to combat this issue..
I was taught to use break in lube Everytime..
could be that failure to use this is the problem or am I missing something here?
it is basically the removal of zinc and some other stuff for today's standards. i have broke motors in before on regular 30wt and i have done it with diesel oil and with the break in lube. i did not see a noticeable difference. but i wasn't really looking for differences, i was making sure they ran. (cheap motors) break-in period for a cam is crucial and if u do it wrong then u will see problems, but do it right and u can't hardly go wrong.(there are some instances u can)
I had the original Big block in the orange truck take the bearings out while 20 minutes in breakin period?? just a week before its first bog,didnt know what caused it to fail. always put them together the same, so it got the smaller motor in it for now.
did u have high oil pressure when u were braking it in? like 80-100psi? and did u install the cam bearings with the right orientation?
rotela t doesn't have zinc in it anymore , I use brad penn green oil and BR brake in oil
yeah had pressure, machine shop did all the cam bearings, but they messed up before , like this would be the fourth time they didnt do something right, last time it was 1 journal out of the rest that didnt get ground on a crankshaft,, and the time before that i got back 2 cracked pistons they just hung on the rods for me. and the 454 in green truck had issues too, rear cam bearing was put in incorrectly and couldnt slide cam into last bearing. so anyway Im looking for a new shop to do buisness with.
my bad for not measuring everything before I put it together.
lol thats why id do it myself. that way i can only blame myself when something goes wrong. lol
Quote from: 2000silverado on September 09, 2008, 12:45:05 AM
lol thats why id do it myself. that way i can only blame myself when something goes wrong. lol
i should say IF something goes wrong
Quote from: Orangecrush on September 09, 2008, 12:31:28 AM
yeah had pressure, machine shop did all the cam bearings, but they messed up before , like this would be the fourth time they didnt do something right, last time it was 1 journal out of the rest that didnt get ground on a crankshaft,, and the time before that i got back 2 cracked pistons they just hung on the rods for me. and the 454 in green truck had issues too, rear cam bearing was put in incorrectly and couldnt slide cam into last bearing. so anyway Im looking for a new shop to do buisness with.
my bad for not measuring everything before I put it together.
Don't use Wilson's Marine. They purchased all the machine shop stuff from Terry Rosebush but they can't seem to use it. They have frigged up several STOCK cylinder heads by not checking installed valve height or putting wrong parts in. Competition Enterprises recommended the machine shop at the Wilder road Carquest. I've been in there, it's a pretty well decked out shop. I've personally used Circle Auto Parts in Midland for years with good luck. Almost everything they did for me was stock so I'm not sure how well they can do high performance stuff.
I was told Rob hunt at RPM, or circle auto in midland, City auto was whom I was talking about, dealt with them for years,they've always fixed any problems,but, but 4 times is a bit much I think.
i would say 4 times is way too much lol. u should always double check a machinists work. i had my bores done and told them i want a 4.0310 bore. i got anything from 4.0301-4.0315. i was not happy--that was carquest in lansing. since then they have got a brand new cnc machine that is supposed to be extremely accurate.
i am not trying to bash muscle motors (mopar shop in lansing) but my buddy got his motor back and spent $$$$$$$$ thousands of dollars and they forgot to tighten some head bolts. he ran it and melted the aluminum heads he just purchased from them....always double check everything before running it
i am not trying to bash muscle motors (mopar shop in lansing) but my buddy got his motor back and spent $$$$$$$$ thousands of dollars and they forgot to tighten some head bolts. he ran it and melted the aluminum heads he just purchased from them....always double check everything before running it
[/quote]
I would like to know who that was.... muscle motors does all my work and I know if it was there falt they would fix it for free!!!! they are the best around! and how did your buddy not know it had a blowen head gasket(that should have blowen frist right after start)
they dyno tested and did not retorque the heads.he started it and melted them. they did replace everything but it is the principle in my mind. they should have done it right in the first place. i have seen some wicked ass motors come from there! it was just a bad day for my buddy. lol