90 chevy 4wheel steer/4wheel drive/4wheel independant suspension

[lapeer20m]

I'm new here, this is my first post.  What a great site!

Some of you may have seen my junk yard truck.  It's usually about the ugliest truck at the mounds.  It's a 90 chevy i intercepted on it's way to the scrap yard with 38" super swampers




I decided to upgrade the project a bit.  We've only been working on the new concept since the first of the year.  The objectives are: 

4 wheel steering
4 wheel drive
4 wheel independant suspension

We started by removing over 2,000 pounds of scrap, and shortening the frame by about 12 feet....









Decided to shorten her a bit









Then we purchased a "new" front end ifs from a 3/4 ton chevy





and married the two front ends together:






We still have quite a ways to go, but the project has been moving pretty fast considering we only started about 2 or 3 weeks ago.  We'd like to have the truck out to the mounds by early February. 

The rear hydraulic steering works great, The radiator has been mounted behind the driver's seat, rollbar installed, 10 gallon fuel cell installed, rear fenders have been finished,  There is still a lot to do though

stay tuned, more to come.....


ps.   I think it was thanksgiving day that some very nice guy loaned me a pair of wrenches...like a 9/16 and a 5/8 to hopefully fix my starter.  He took off and i was supposed to catch up to him later...however i never got the truck started again and got towed out to the front.  IF you're that guy, please send me a message so i can return your property...thanks

MY ground clearance from the lowest point (differential) to the ground is 19.5". 

[Mikey]

looks like a fun project good luck with it.

[lapeer20m]

here's the latest pic's.....You really need a good sense of vision when you look at the pic's to see the vehicles potential.  She's come a long way, but still has a long ways to go....


The rollcage is pretty much finished, the front fenders were removed and the new front end is boxed in, but still needs the sheet metal, battery holder, ect. I'm half tempted to purchase an optima battery just so i can mount it upside down...but i don't know if i'll spend the $$ or not



here's a shot of one of the rear fenders.  They're strong enough you can walk on them.  Also added an alluminum tool box that got donated to the project














I really want to finish the body work so we can get her painted.  She'll look 1,000 times better with paint.....now to decide what colors...

I'm thinking a bit of a grave digger look...black with bright green flames/trim

the guy helping me with the project...this is a co-project...wants to paint it battleship grey with a white star on the hood....The primer grey would help to hide lots of imperfections, but i think it's too boring..

[mpsbvp]

this is an intresting project keep up the good work

[Eroq]

this is a pretty sweet rig, how did you setup the rear end? did you just duplicate the front end and leave the gears stock. never thought about which way the driveshaft has to spin to turn the tires the right way.. thats still pretty cool

[Bigdaddy]

looks cool, keep us updated, to

[Econo-box from Hell]

Way to do things different, I like that.

[Smithingell]

yea, I definatley like where your headed with this thing...looks pretty cool...I have a plan for a similar project, although I'm not using independant suspension.....the suspension parts I'm using are going to start as independant, but not stay that way...

so am I seeing correctly? is that rear front....uhh...the front in the rear....yea, that one....do you have that set up as a chain drive?

was wondering how your were going to deal with the offset and the reverse direction....the chains look a little loose though....

how do you plan on lubricationg them being exposed like that? just open gear lube occasionally, or an oil drip system, or what?

[TBigLug]

I like it. I'm wondering along the same lines, how are you gonna keep the chain on and clean? Are there plans for a sring loaded, plastic slider for tension and a encased cover?

[lapeer20m]

The rear is chain drive, for 2 reasons.  The most important is that the rear has 4.10 gears in it and the front has 3.73 gears.  Using a drive shaft to run the rear obviously wouldn't work due to the difference in gear ratio.  I fixed the ratio using a different size sprockets. 

The second reason is that when i started the project i was convinced that a front axle would not spin the tires in the correct direction if the axle were oriented with the yoke pointing toward the front of the vehicle.  I now realize that a front axle can be moved to the rear of a vehicle and everything will spin the correct direction.  That was a difficult concept to wrap my brain around. 

I haven't really thought much about covering the chains.  i've seen mud dragsters that use a double 60 chain and sprocket instead of a transfer case.  The one i looked at didn't have a guard to keep mud out of it.  Quads and dirt bikes have chains that run in the mud all the time.  I think it'll be ok if i just clean and oil the chain when i'm finished for the day.....

as far as slack in the chain, i've removed as many links as possible to be able to still get the master link on.  I even removed a half-link to make things just a little tighter.  Then i used double 40 chain with 2 idler sprockets and a pair of stiff springs i would estimate pull with about 50 pounds of force each. 

I don't really have all the answers, i'm just kind of making it up as i go along. 

[JPaulRay]

Cool project hope it all works out for you   

[lapeer20m]

one question i am unable to find the answer to is how to use one power steering pump to power both the stock front steering, and the hydraulic rear steer.  I tried just putting a tee into both the pressure and return lines, but this method makes neither the front or rear steer work well at all.  Even when i'm not trying to steer the front the rear is really S L O W.  If i hook up just the front, or just the rear everything works excellent.  If i can't solve the problem, i'll just add another ps pump....actually i tried that, but the pump i mounted doesn't work....Tomorrow i'm gonna try restricting the flow through the return lines and see if that'll make any difference. 

Anyone have expierence with this issue?

[Ranger Dave]

 Awesome          Think Out Side The  Box!       hope it all works for ya.

[hrspwrjunkie355]

thats looks like it will be a fun toy

[Eroq]

i would consider running two pumps, if your steering front and rear at the same time, you may run into not having enough flow for both of them. Unless you are using closed center steering control valves (orbital valve as people call them) then all you would have to run is a relif valve just before each steering valve. This way you will get full flow to the front wheels when the rears are not moving.

OR you could outfit yer rig with a hydraulic pump, sort of like on a logsplitter for example.  You would have to make a mounting bracket for yer motor and put a pulley on it, its easy to find one that runs about 16GPM (quite a few times the flow of a stock PS pump) This will allow you to steer a bit faster and you can steer front and rear at the same time.

Something similar to this http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200321055_200321055

I'm looking to mount one on my truck, i keep having problems with my stock power steering pump

[da_peas_2097]

hey i ment you at m21 auto when you were picking up that 2nd power steering pump i was wishing i would have got your # so i could see it but you posted picks thats pretty cool nice job

[lapeer20m]

one more concept that i've thought about is welding the spider gears inside the diffs.  I've done this before on non-steering axles with good results.  I know there can be problems  with a lincoln locker in a steer axle.  The beauty of the GM ifs setup is that with the flip of a switch i can "unlock" my hubs (really it allows one of the axle shafts to be disconected or something)... If the spider gears were welded and the "hubs" were unlocked one tire per axle would be driving, and one tire per axle would be allowed to freewheel kind of working like a differential.     When the "hubs" were locked in I would have full lockers front and rear.   

what do you guys think about that idea?  If i do try it, i'm gonna do 1 axle at a time and see how it works out.  The problem is that once you weld the spider gears together, there is no turning back. 

it would be pretty cool to have lockers i can connect/disconnect with the flip of a switch

[Eroq]

GM IFS diffs are really easy to come by, and most of the time are they pretty cheap

[lapeer20m]

GM IFS diffs are really easy to come by, and most of the time are they pretty cheap

that's true.  Although these are the heavy 3/4 ton axles which aren't as common as the 1/2 ton axles.  Another thing that killed me when i was searching for my new "rear" end is how many 2wd chevy's end up at the scrap yard in michigan. 

[Smithingell]

I have my front welded, and just lock and unlock the drivers side hub....the concept does work just fine, but I'm not sure how well it will work with the GM shaft disconect thingy....I'm thinking worse case scenario you might have to move back and forth a little to get it to release after its welded, but thats no big deal....I would do it