Open Carry- How to Remain Silent when Questioned by the Police (Video)

[Hammerlane]

hammerlane      as far as a cop stopping you on your own property
if there is no reasonable suspicion a crime is being committed they have no right to detain you
or even request ID. if they show up again especially on your own property simply ask "am i being
detained officer?" if he says no tellum to have a nice day and kindly get off your property. regardless
what cops think they cant trespass unless investigating a crime or LEGITAMATE suspicion of one

legally open carrying a gun is not reasonable suspicion. been tested in court
and the leo lost

now up for debate is if you have your cpl your required to disclose your a cpl holder to a police officer
if you are carrying concealed. some feel the need to disclose is voided when your open carrying

Yep, completely understood, didn't stop him from backing up n' rollin down his window
reasonable suspicion, according to what I have been told was warranted by the display of the firearm
and the fact that he did not know I lived there.  I agree that is not reasonable suspicion, however, the theory of
" do it and ask for fogivness later " is a large part of leo's training.

[damn_ford]

hammerlane      as far as a cop stopping you on your own property
if there is no reasonable suspicion a crime is being committed they have no right to detain you
or even request ID. if they show up again especially on your own property simply ask "am i being
detained officer?" if he says no tellum to have a nice day and kindly get off your property. regardless
what cops think they cant trespass unless investigating a crime or LEGITAMATE suspicion of one

legally open carrying a gun is not reasonable suspicion. been tested in court
and the leo lost

now up for debate is if you have your cpl your required to disclose your a cpl holder to a police officer
if you are carrying concealed. some feel the need to disclose is voided when your open carrying

Yep, completely understood, didn't stop him from backing up n' rollin down his window
reasonable suspicion, according to what I have been told was warranted by the display of the firearm
and the fact that he did not know I lived there.  I agree that is not reasonable suspicion, however, the theory of
" do it and ask for fogivness later " is a large part of leo's training.

so guilty until proven innocent.. hmmm.. seems like a civil rights violation LOL theres a reason people carry video cameras or voice recorders

[Hammerlane]

Yea, which unfortunately is counter productive towards your "strong feelings" pertaining to a positive emotion where open carry is concerned.

I believe we (open carry) should absolutely be responsible in how we present ourselves towards the public and law enforcement, but the cards are
stacked against us.. leo's believe we are guilty to begin with and the soccer moms are scared to death about ..  uh.. everything!! especially firearms.
put these 2 elements together.. and add a cocky "gonna test my rights" attitude.. FAIL.

[4x4xdodgeman]

i just came across this. the cop new the law on carring a gun. if  you listing to the vido cop says that it was freaking people out that seen him walking.  so when a call comes in thay have to look into it. I thought it was funny on how many cops showed up. then thought about if thay aren't doing anything thay will all come to one call.

[damn_ford]

heres a case precident for ya hammerlane

4) Commonwealth v. Couture, 407 Mass. 178, 552 N.E.2d 538 (1990):

"Therefore, a police officer's knowledge that a person is peacefully carrying a firearm, in and of itself, does not furnish probable cause to believe that the person is illegally carrying that firearm. The resultant stop is improper under Fourth Amendment principles

.
also i believe its msp update 86 that covers open carry and how leos should and are required to act
you can print a copy and give it to the officer next time he violates your rights. you can find it at
opencarry.org

[Hammerlane]

SaWeet..

wish I would have saved the article..  (from a year ago or so)
I read somewhere that the chief of the MSP has stated publicly that if you are found to be open carry..
you WILL be arrested for "something"...

So, a stark difference of opinion concerning conduct of both parties..
how do we (the open carry) put a positive spin on this right, and prevent the harrassment
and scaring of the soccer mom's.

[damn_ford]

dont go all stoopid tacticool and carry a glock or whatever he was. in a drop leg holster and look like your ready for battle like the dude in the vid

i carry daily. never take it off. when i put my pants on in the morning my gun goes on. small revolver in a holster on my belt.
i even carry my 5.5 single action army once in a while in a leather holster. in a year and a half ive had two people notice. one person at a gas station
noticed and strike up a conversation about oc. one other person noticedthat i know of. he was an ill informed cc er, he said "hey i can see your gun,
your not supposed to" i politely told him he was wrong and went about my business.

part of the problem is theres even cpl instructors still teaching that if you have your cpl you HAVE to cover it up. which is false

[Hammerlane]

Ok, good points to start with..
I had my .45 on my belt.. empty chamber.
travel is cumbersome.. packing it up when you get in a vehicle etc.. but do'able.
buddy has a cpl.. I simply put it in the glove box when I'm w/him.. (questionable ethics on that)

would like one of those 2 shot .410 derringer styles, not as noticeable, lighter..
and yea.. gunslinger style is projecting confrontation.

[J.C.]

part of the problem is theres even cpl instructors still teaching that if you have your cpl you HAVE to cover it up. which is false

I have heard that soooooooooooo many times. So you do not have to cover it if you have a cpl? I always figured if open carry is legal, and you had a cpl, who cares if you can see it?

[damn_ford]

there is no requirement to conceal with a cpl.

without a cpl if you are not in a vehicle or a prohibited area ie... bar, licenced liquor store, church, you can legally OPEN carry a pistol. downtown, public park, dont matter. the michigan firearm pre emption law is on your side. no munincipality shall institute laws or ordinances restricting the carry of firearms stricter than the state guidelines

[damn_ford]

cops trespassing? 


"supreme court Justices said the common law right of a person to resist illegal police conduct still prevails, "including unlawful arrests and unlawful entries into constitutionally protected areas"



recent michigan supreme court ruling...
http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local/ottawa_county/man-injures-officer-charges-thrown-out

[damn_ford]

little MSP update/opinion for local pd about open carry and stopping and ID for no reason in general......

Officers are reminded that the Fourth Amendment protects citizens from unreasonable searches and seizures. Carrying a non- concealed firearm is generally legal. Officers may engage in a consensual encounter with a person carrying a non-concealed pistol; however, in order to stop a citizen, officers are required to have reasonable suspicion that crime is afoot. For example, officers may not stop a person on the mere possibility the person may be carrying an unregistered pistol. Officers must possess facts rising to the level of reasonable suspicion to believe the person is carrying an unregistered pistol.
Officers are also reminded there is no general duty for a citizen to identify himself or herself to a police officer unless the citizen is being stopped for a Michigan Vehicle Code violation.

[Orangecrush]

    i seldom open carry  and do have a cpl    and have it on me often   or in the glovebox 

Great Thread!