Turbo vs. Blower psi?

Jthomas · July 21, 2012, 01:06:22 PM

Oh and I don't really see much of engine discussions on here like this thread. These are the ones I like to see.

lilred · July 21, 2012, 02:04:38 PM

The only torque multiplier I know of in a drivetrain is the torque convertor in a automatic and that's minimal gain... Other than that, drivetrain robs power...

Quote from: Jthomas on July 21, 2012, 01:04:36 PM
I could just pour a couple gallons of meth in my tanks with pump gas?

And now that I go back and read. All of these big hp 4 cylinders are measured in RWHP!!

That's why they get big power readings, its not measured at the crank. Wimps.
You can build alot of hP and Tq just through your gearing and tranny. Non of the cars I've seen have been dynoed on an engine dyno. Just the tuner kind.

Jthomas · July 21, 2012, 02:12:59 PM

How?

xjs3667 · July 21, 2012, 04:14:58 PM

gearing does multiply torque..... try taking off in 5th gear form a dead stop sometime tell me how that works out

and yes you can add methenol into the gas, but your going to want want to get the ratios right.

also I do agree with the dynos, there is such a variant between them, I mean its all on how they are set up or calibrated.... you could one place and your rwhp rating is say 300hp and go to another, and its reading 400hp.... wtf? I don't think they are accurate at all and really only trust an engine dyno, plus all the math equations are there to find out what your engine hp will be after add on's, well it gets really close to a point as it doesn't include like port and polish heads or what carb you are running

lilred · July 21, 2012, 05:04:01 PM

Quote from: Jthomas on July 21, 2012, 02:12:59 PM
How?

Friction..... Show me a set up that has more horsepower at the wheels than it does at the flywheel....

lilred · July 21, 2012, 05:06:15 PM

Dynos only measure torque, horsepower is a math equation

http://www.engineersedge.com/motors/rotating_horsepower_equation.htm

xjs3667 · July 21, 2012, 06:29:25 PM

lil red you are right, there is substantial loss in hp thru the drivetrain, but its "fixed" with the torque of the gearing. Every engine will produce more hp at the fly than wheels, but not the same torque.

and because every dyno is setup up differently the numbers will never match between the dyno places, and because the dyno's use torque to measure hp I could change my gearing a little or manually lock my torque converter and bata bing bata boom, I just changed not just tq but hp ratings as well. all dynos measure in torque even engine dynos. But if you use an engine dyno there is no gearing in the vehicle that can be changed to obstruct the actual tq/hp ratings. and By using the same engine dyno whenever changes are made you will have a consistent reading. Same applies with chassis dynos, use the same dyno always to have a consistent reading.

And if anyone still thinks gearing doesn't play a role..... why do you think they don't dyno it in 1st or 2nd gear?? because it would off the charts!!

I used to run a engine dyno.... that was a fun job

ice87 · July 22, 2012, 05:21:44 AM

Just did some researching on dynos and as long as you go to a place that has a good dyno operator and its calibrated corrected then you don't get more HP or torque at the wheels. They plug in what gears you have and your tire height so you don't get off readings. One guy said in his mustang he changed gears and used the same dyno same operator and the difference was 1% between the 2.
They both have there place I would like a supercharger on my truck for more down low power but I want to put a Turbo on my bike for the high rpms it turns.look up the newhe 2013 mustang, its has 650hp on a supercharger that putting out somewhere between 12-15psi. But that is also running an intercooler for the higher boost.

xjs3667 · July 22, 2012, 05:35:13 AM

Quote from: ice87 on July 22, 2012, 05:21:44 AM
Just did some researching on dynos and as long as you go to a place that has a good dyno operator and its calibrated corrected then you don't get more HP or torque at the wheels. They plug in what gears you have and your tire height so you don't get off readings. One guy said in his mustang he changed gears and used the same dyno same operator and the difference was 1% between the 2.
They both have there place I would like a supercharger on my truck for more down low power but I want to put a Turbo on my bike for the high rpms it turns.look up the newhe 2013 mustang, its has 650hp on a supercharger that putting out somewhere between 12-15psi. But that is also running an intercooler for the higher boost.

x2 as long as you have a good honest dyno operator then your good.... there are countless times people have asked me or said they will give me some extra $$ to punch in different numbers to give them a higher hp/tq ratings...wouldn't do it and never will... big fines and didn't wanna loose my job... but there are guys out there that will, so I am always a little skeptical when it comes to peoples claims even when they have the papers.... I go by the math and always will, I understand it will be off by a few ponies but when the math adds up to 300hp and they guy hands me a paper saying 420hp wtf?? If hes lying and cheating on one thing then you damn well he's doing it about other things in his engine...did he really build it up or just slap a cam and a dress up kit on it

ice87 · July 22, 2012, 06:18:45 AM

Yup what alot of people don't realize is the engine dyno or chassis is only another tool. Its there to help you find what A/F and timing that motor and combo likes. You can build 2 exact motors with the same parts and each motor will like different timing and jets. Another thing is elevation and humidity can throw numbers off alot too.

Jthomas · July 27, 2012, 12:27:23 AM

Thinking out loud here. If they were to run that much boost, they have to drop the comp ratio (duh) but to run THAT MUCH, they would have to drop it alot, the wrist pin height would interfere with the rings, and actually make the rings weaker, leading to failure? Leading to engine damage/failure? Cuz I mean them suns of bitches are doing like 9k+rpm

ice87 · July 27, 2012, 03:04:38 AM

Nope most are running around 8-8.5:1 running that much boost

betterbeaters · July 27, 2012, 12:09:20 PM

if your going to shops where the dyno #s are wrong I wouldnt trust the work they do... and would be taking my psrts to someone else to do it... I had my old motor dynoed at 492 hp 355.. the guys that dynoed mine offered to make me a different slip saying 900 hp to mess with friends, and I almost did it but never did. and theres nothing wrong with that as long as your not selling the motor as the fake #. when I dyno my new 468 I am going to have a paper with a 1200 hp# on it for

's and giggles.
and a friend of mine ran a blower on his play truck never worked right and after 3 months his 383 was junk.

Jthomas · July 27, 2012, 04:06:08 PM

Quote from: betterbeaters on July 27, 2012, 12:09:20 PM
if your going to shops where the dyno #s are wrong I wouldnt trust the work they do... and would be taking my psrts to someone else to do it... I had my old motor dynoed at 492 hp 355.. the guys that dynoed mine offered to make me a different slip saying 900 hp to mess with friends, and I almost did it but never did. and theres nothing wrong with that as long as your not selling the motor as the fake #. when I dyno my new 468 I am going to have a paper with a 1200 hp# on it for 's and giggles.
and a friend of mine ran a blower on his play truck never worked right and after 3 months his 383 was junk.

When it comes to blowers, blowers are the tune up. You change one aspect of the blower, and you have to change your tuneup.

xjs3667 · July 27, 2012, 09:41:37 PM

Quote from: betterbeaters on July 27, 2012, 12:09:20 PM
if your going to shops where the dyno #s are wrong I wouldnt trust the work they do... and would be taking my psrts to someone else to do it... I had my old motor dynoed at 492 hp 355.. the guys that dynoed mine offered to make me a different slip saying 900 hp to mess with friends, and I almost did it but never did. and theres nothing wrong with that as long as your not selling the motor as the fake #. when I dyno my new 468 I am going to have a paper with a 1200 hp# on it for 's and giggles.
and a friend of mine ran a blower on his play truck never worked right and after 3 months his 383 was junk.

and that right there is the reason why a dyno slip means nothing to me lol

betterbeaters · July 27, 2012, 10:07:32 PM

I only wanted fake ones for a few people the rest see the real ones. I'm proud to have dyno papers and would only show the fakes to close friends that I want to mess with and when the last time you seen a 1200 hp 468 n/a with iron heads and pump gas? I want # so big you will know its bs for jokes but guess we play different games here lol also if you see dyno papers u can call the shop that did it and ask them to prove it! lol the guy that got my 355 did.

xjs3667 · July 28, 2012, 12:26:15 AM

dude Im not putting you or your motor down in anyway... Im just saying that if anyone would even offer a different dyno sheet no matter how obscured the numbers are, it is not right and should not have a job. I would not trust anyone that runs that dyno and does that. jmho... and If it was my shop and I found guys doing that they would be gone in a heart beat, it is very hard to get a good rep. and the only word that will get out is that they change dyno numbers..

betterbeaters · July 28, 2012, 12:39:10 AM

Quote from: xjs3667 on July 28, 2012, 12:26:15 AM
dude Im not putting you or your motor down in anyway... Im just saying that if anyone would even offer a different dyno sheet no matter how obscured the numbers are, it is not right and should not have a job. I would not trust anyone that runs that dyno and does that. jmho... and If it was my shop and I found guys doing that they would be gone in a heart beat, it is very hard to get a good rep. and the only word that will get out is that they change dyno numbers..

I guess I should have said the owner of the shop is the one who offered cause he is a friend of mine. he will not do that for anyone else! lol