the other day i started noticing massive drop in oil pressure on my way home. found out it was leaking, checked it, it looks like it was comin from the passenger side valve cover. ok no big deal, pulled the cover off put some silicone along with the gasket back on cuz it was a rubber one and let it sit for 5 hours then drove it to work, which is only a 15 minute drive and then it was leaking from both sides of the motor, again, lookin like it was from the valve covers! got some brand new gakets, rubber with the steel inserts and siliconed em all and let em sit over night to dry and set up. drove it to work the next day, oil was droppin again and it was all comin out just the drivers side now. and i was like wtf, so i pulled the breathers off and just put rubber hoses thinkin maybe with the cold weather the breathers were icing up. now its not really lookin like its leaking but ive got way low pressure still. at cold itll be 40+ but warmed up itll be round 5-7 at best but if im driving itll go up to bout 15-20.... but i have a high volume pump and i never had this issue before!!! i mean sometimes when its idling with low pressure it sounds like the oil pump may be pingin a lil but its hard to tell, but it does have oil with it
this is the 400 in my dd truck. fresh rebuild and just changed the oil bout 2 weeks ago and ive put round 1k miles on it. ive only put it up in the higher rpms a couple times under hard throttle testing out the carb to get it tuned.....
ive looked and checked and felt around the top back of the botor and it doesnt seem to be the pressure sensor at the block either
==dunno ==help ==help ==help ==help
Is it the intake-to-block gap seal leaking?
Almost sounds like blow-by problems . . .
Quote from: ToughBowtieTruck on January 15, 2012, 12:13:25 AM
Is it the intake-to-block gap seal leaking?
Almost sounds like blow-by problems . . .
thats why i changed out the breathers for tubs, so i wouldnt have that issue. cuz the intake to block has a rubber gaskets just with a lil silicone added to it, not just silicone
would that cause low oil pressure tho?
No, that's probably rod/main bearings. At minimum you want 10 psi for every 1,000 rpms.
Changing the breathers doesn't eliminate blow-by. The factory PCV/breather pipe going into the engine was for emissions so the engine can burn the gas fumes out of the oil. This also allowed oil to last longer.
The only way to fix blow-by is with new piston rings, provided the block isn't worn out.
Did you do a proper engine break-in ?
did what the machine shop told me. its a roller cam so i didnt have to do a cam break in process. everything was machined and honed. all i did was run it half our first startup, changed the oil(head gaskets went bad after that change so i had to redo the top end) changed the oil with the new top end, ran it a week, changed it again, ran it bout 100 miles, changed it, 500 changed it, and just a couple weeks ago changed it at 1k and this issue just started after i was driving around for an hour a couple days ago
how could it be blow by if its not burning the oil, it just has really low pressure
Quote from: Kyle on January 15, 2012, 12:37:11 AM
did what the machine shop told me. its a roller cam so i didnt have to do a cam break in process. everything was machined and honed. all i did was run it half our first startup, changed the oil(head gaskets went bad after that change so i had to redo the top end)
how could it be blow by if its not burning the oil, it just has really low pressure
Because the oil gets burned when it's blown into the air cleaner. Or through the PCV. But you put tubes on it. So it won't get burned.
I'm suspicious of that engine, head gaskets going bad during break-in? If any coolant found its way to the oil that could have set the bearings up for failure.
Something isn't right. Low oil pressure yet it keeps leaking oil . . .
Quote from: ToughBowtieTruck on January 15, 2012, 12:45:53 AM
Quote from: Kyle on January 15, 2012, 12:37:11 AM
did what the machine shop told me. its a roller cam so i didnt have to do a cam break in process. everything was machined and honed. all i did was run it half our first startup, changed the oil(head gaskets went bad after that change so i had to redo the top end)
how could it be blow by if its not burning the oil, it just has really low pressure
Because the oil gets burned when it's blown into the air cleaner. Or through the PCV. But you put tubes on it. So it won't get burned.
I'm suspicious of that engine, head gaskets going bad during break-in? If any coolant found its way to the oil that could have set the bearings up for failure.
Something isn't right. Low oil pressure yet it keeps leaking oil . . .
head gaskets were due to a head with a bad plug in it and being warped like crazy(theyre iron eagles). and the only reason i knwo it was bad is cuz it had a crapload bein burnt outta one of the cylinders, so if any got in there it was very little, and it was changed before bein run again
and im not entirely sure if its leakin oil anymores since i added the tubes. more worried bout why its low pressure and why its doing it NOW and not way before
maybe someting pluging the oilpick up screen ???
Quote from: rangerwheelinmike on January 15, 2012, 01:10:52 AM
maybe someting pluging the oilpick up screen ???
Silicone gasket maker is infamous for doing that. Good point . . .
Quote from: ToughBowtieTruck on January 15, 2012, 01:12:16 AM
Quote from: rangerwheelinmike on January 15, 2012, 01:10:52 AM
maybe someting pluging the oilpick up screen ???
Silicone gasket maker is infamous for doing that. Good point . . .
thats what i was thinking it hapend to my 351 screen was coverd in pices of rtv if you put to much on when puting intake on it runs out it also runs in then brakes up and ends up in the oil
Quote from: ToughBowtieTruck on January 15, 2012, 01:12:16 AM
Quote from: rangerwheelinmike on January 15, 2012, 01:10:52 AM
maybe someting pluging the oilpick up screen ???
Silicone gasket maker is infamous for doing that. Good point . . .
that is a good point... but can it really plug it up that much? its not very small screen by any means, and i have good pressure cold, just the warmer it gets, the worse it gets
Quote from: Kyle on January 15, 2012, 01:16:09 AM
Quote from: ToughBowtieTruck on January 15, 2012, 01:12:16 AM
Quote from: rangerwheelinmike on January 15, 2012, 01:10:52 AM
maybe someting pluging the oilpick up screen ???
Silicone gasket maker is infamous for doing that. Good point . . .
that is a good point... but can it really plug it up that much? its not very small screen by any means, and i have good pressure cold, just the warmer it gets, the worse it gets
it can plug it if theres enuff of it my 351w had 70-80 then ended up with 10-20 becouse of that
Quote from: Kyle on January 15, 2012, 01:16:09 AM
Quote from: ToughBowtieTruck on January 15, 2012, 01:12:16 AM
Quote from: rangerwheelinmike on January 15, 2012, 01:10:52 AM
maybe someting pluging the oilpick up screen ???
Silicone gasket maker is infamous for doing that. Good point . . .
that is a good point... but can it really plug it up that much? its not very small screen by any means, and i have good pressure cold, just the warmer it gets, the worse it gets
What's "good" pressure? 60 psi + ?
I've also have known people having this problem with oil filters. I've had problems with fram oil filters Causeing low oil pressure. Possibly try changing the filter and see what happens.
Quote from: 73chevytruck on January 15, 2012, 01:36:11 AM
I've also have known people having this problem with oil filters. I've had problems with fram oil filters Causeing low oil pressure. Possibly try changing the filter and see what happens.
im running a k&n one right now, thats all ive used on this motor so far...
Quote from: 73chevytruck on January 15, 2012, 01:36:11 AM
I've also have known people having this problem with oil filters. I've had problems with fram oil filters Causeing low oil pressure. Possibly try changing the filter and see what happens.
i have heard abought this they come apart inside and block oil flow
Quote from: rangerwheelinmike on January 15, 2012, 01:10:52 AM
maybe someting pluging the oilpick up screen ???
have you changed the oil yet? being so fresh it might need it. Also it could possibly be a faulty oil pump even if it its not that old. I blew up my parents Astro van one time sittin at a light, light turned green, went to take off and that fast locked up tighter than a drum cause the pump died and there never was a sign of any problems. I also had a dodge that ran great pressure and one day it dropped from 40psi to 18 psi and would bounce up and down. Replaced the pump and took care of the problem.
Quote from: gator82 on January 15, 2012, 01:42:20 AM
Quote from: rangerwheelinmike on January 15, 2012, 01:10:52 AM
maybe someting pluging the oilpick up screen ???
have you changed the oil yet? being so fresh it might need it. Also it could possibly be a faulty oil pump even if it its not that old. I blew up my parents Astro van one time sittin at a light, light turned green, went to take off and that fast locked up tighter than a drum cause the pump died and there never was a sign of any problems. I also had a dodge that ran great pressure and one day it dropped from 40psi to 18 psi and would bounce up and down. Replaced the pump and took care of the problem.
its been changed multiple times since the rebuild, if anything i did it too much. last one was a couple weeks ago
Not too sure, I have had problems with either a bad gauge,sensor, or like I said oil pump. What sucks is not know if its the pump and changing it for no reason. Hit or miss, you might want to look up econobox from hell on here and p.m. him. If I remember right he is a master mechanic with lots of years experience and might be able to throw some options your way.
yea you think there could be something wrong with your guage ???
hard to tell, its the factory one. all factory hookup and sensor, just on the new block
itll still read over 40 cold
ii wonder if it could be the sending unit
do u have the oil pump drive rod with the steel coller on it and not the stock 1 with the nilon coller were the rod hooks into the pump
Oil pressure always reads higher when cold cause the oil is thick then it drops as the oil warms up. I got an 02 suburban that if I start it now will read around 60,then drop to around 20-25 after warm and maintains 40 while driving. Try swapping in another gauge if ya got one then try the sensor, if neither works tackle the pump. Maybe grab some from a bone yard just to test so your not out much.
Quote from: gator82 on January 15, 2012, 02:16:42 AM
Oil pressure always reads higher when cold cause the oil is thick then it drops as the oil warms up. I got an 02 suburban that if I start it now will read around 60,then drop to around 20-25 after warm and maintains 40 while driving. Try swapping in another gauge if ya got one then try the sensor, if neither works tackle the pump. Maybe grab some from a bone yard just to test so your not out much.
i might just pick up a new sender from autozone. never hurts to know its new anyways i guess...
Quote from: hot rod heep on January 15, 2012, 02:14:07 AM
do u have the oil pump drive rod with the steel coller on it and not the stock 1 with the nilon coller were the rod hooks into the pump
i got a heavy duty one off of summit with the metal collar yes
would a bad oil pump make any noise while its in the oil pan at all?
I would hook up a mech gage frist. is what the persure at. is it high volume pump/ stock pump? when the motor is warm up watch it. see what it is doing. with motor at idle if needle jumps around it has a spun bearing. ( did you put your motor together? or a shop?)
Its a high volume pump. No it does not jump around. I put it together myself
Did you make sure when you put the pick up screen in that it had the right higth to the oil pan set? Is it a press in screen, if it is it could have dropped. I like to weld the screen to the oil pump so this doesnt happen. It sure sounds like you have a bearing problem, like either mains or cam bearings either put in wrong or spun. i would drop the pan check main bearings and oil pump pic up screen and replace oil pump.
Don't blow it up....may need to tear it down again.
if you got antifree or water down in the oil and it was driven i've seen it take out a set of bearning. could be cam or mains, rod. ==dunno
and if you change your oil to much, that will wash out a set of bearning to. i've been messing with motors and things way back sents the 60s, i seen a lot of craze things. hope it somthing smiple for ya.
take a maniual guage and instaill it. sometimes a guage lies to ya.
just keep checking you will find it.
sounds like a bearing went bad to me.
kyle did you weld the pick up to pump. if not that could the noise that you said you can hear. is pick up beatting on the pan. when you put the motor together did you check the cleances or just put it together? do not trust any shop, people make misstakes.
If youve changed the pump several times and tried different guages and sending units, you most likely have a bad bearing. If its ever been overheated or frozen with insufficient antifreeze, it might be cracked. Theres a soft plug that goes in the oil galley above the rear main bearing, is it in there?? If left out on a build, it will have fair pressure at first but drops over time as the motor develops more bearing clearance as it wears in
Quote from: charlie on January 15, 2012, 01:40:10 PM
Did you make sure when you put the pick up screen in that it had the right higth to the oil pan set? Is it a press in screen, if it is it could have dropped. I like to weld the screen to the oil pump so this doesnt happen. It sure sounds like you have a bearing problem, like either mains or cam bearings either put in wrong or spun. i would drop the pan check main bearings and oil pump pic up screen and replace oil pump.
its a press in, it had a tang for a bolt to hold it to it so i never welded it on
Quote from: Blazin40s on January 15, 2012, 02:03:31 PM
Don't blow it up....may need to tear it down again.
its parked. not driving it any mores....
Quote from: Ranger Dave on January 15, 2012, 02:16:43 PM
if you got antifree or water down in the oil and it was driven i've seen it take out a set of bearning. could be cam or mains, rod. ==dunno
and if you change your oil to much, that will wash out a set of bearning to. i've been messing with motors and things way back sents the 60s, i seen a lot of craze things. hope it somthing smiple for ya.
take a maniual guage and instaill it. sometimes a guage lies to ya.
just keep checking you will find it.
how can a bearing wash out???
Quote from: 4x4xdodgeman on January 15, 2012, 06:16:08 PM
kyle did you weld the pick up to pump. if not that could the noise that you said you can hear. is pick up beatting on the pan. when you put the motor together did you check the cleances or just put it together? do not trust any shop, people make misstakes.
i had just put it together. bottom end was essentially stock except for new rods and it just being machined
Quote from: Bryank on January 16, 2012, 12:03:42 AM
Quote from: Squirell on January 15, 2012, 02:29:42 PM
sounds like a bearing went bad to me.
god i hope not.... it just seems so weird that it just happened one day while drving, hadnt changed or touched anything with it in 2 weeks
Quote from: old school truck dude on January 16, 2012, 12:51:18 AM
If youve changed the pump several times and tried different guages and sending units, you most likely have a bad bearing. If its ever been overheated or frozen with insufficient antifreeze, it might be cracked. Theres a soft plug that goes in the oil galley above the rear main bearing, is it in there?? If left out on a build, it will have fair pressure at first but drops over time as the motor develops more bearing clearance as it wears in
havent changed the pump or anything yet. got a new one on its way. never been overheated since rebuild and it was rebuilt even before i got it and all freeze plugs were redone when i had machining one
As Ranger Dave said, if the antifreeze got into the oil it can dilute the oil, essentaially washing the oil coating off the bearing surface. Which will cause bearing and/or crankshaft damage.
As far as pick up tube, always a good idea to tack weld it on the pump. I had one fall off in a truck i bought, wiped out the crank.
As much as it sucks, if it was my engine i would drop the oil pan and pull some bearing caps off and see how they look, and check the oil pump and pick up too
i got a new pump and pickup ordered and should be here in a couple days. ill make sure to tack or weld it all on this time for sure
what would i be looking for if i pull a main cap off?
Look for big wear or discoloration in the bearing surface, they should look like new still. Also check to see if the bearing spun itself. Did you check all your rods and mains with plastigage for clearance when you were assembling it?
Quote from: Bowtie972 on January 16, 2012, 02:11:22 AM
Look for big wear or discoloration in the bearing surface, they should look like new still. Also check to see if the bearing spun itself. Did you check all your rods and mains with plastigage for clearance when you were assembling it?
no i did not, dont have very many checking guages. just a dial indicator, calipers and a few micrometers
Gotta plastigauge it when u put it together.
Plastigage is cheap and easy. you can get it at most part stores. Costs a few bucks for a strip about 12" or so. it looks like dental floss, you lay a small piece across the crank and put the cap back on and torque it. Then remove the cap and the plastigage will be flattened out, on the package it came in there will be a chart, match the width of the flattened piece to the chart and it will tell you your bearing clearance. If your within the specs called for your engine should be good. I always do this with no oil on crank, check all the rods and mains, if all looks good clean off the plastigage and coat w/ oil or breakin lube.
Plastigage is a quick check just to make sure there were no mistakes at mach shop, or a wrong /mismarked bearing.
Quote from: Bowtie972 on January 16, 2012, 02:26:28 AM
Plastigage is cheap and easy. you can get it at most part stores. Costs a few bucks for a strip about 12" or so. it looks like dental floss, you lay a small piece across the crank and put the cap back on and torque it. Then remove the cap and the plastigage will be flattened out, on the package it came in there will be a chart, match the width of the flattened piece to the chart and it will tell you your bearing clearance. If your within the specs called for your engine should be good. I always do this with no oil on crank, check all the rods and mains, if all looks good clean off the plastigage and coat w/ oil or breakin lube.
Plastigage is a quick check just to make sure there were no mistakes at mach shop, or a wrong /mismarked bearing.
x2 if your crank was turned you need oversize bearings, if your crank was turned and stock bearinings went in you
will show low pressure, it's whats called an "internal leak".
that's what the plastiguage will tell you.
you've had oil changes.. was the viscosity of the oil changed.. ie.. 40W down to 30W
possible "minor" loss there
Quote from: Hammerlane on January 16, 2012, 05:35:21 PM
Quote from: Bowtie972 on January 16, 2012, 02:26:28 AM
Plastigage is cheap and easy. you can get it at most part stores. Costs a few bucks for a strip about 12" or so. it looks like dental floss, you lay a small piece across the crank and put the cap back on and torque it. Then remove the cap and the plastigage will be flattened out, on the package it came in there will be a chart, match the width of the flattened piece to the chart and it will tell you your bearing clearance. If your within the specs called for your engine should be good. I always do this with no oil on crank, check all the rods and mains, if all looks good clean off the plastigage and coat w/ oil or breakin lube.
Plastigage is a quick check just to make sure there were no mistakes at mach shop, or a wrong /mismarked bearing.
x2 if your crank was turned you need oversize bearings, if your crank was turned and stock bearinings went in you
will show low pressure, it's whats called an "internal leak".
that's what the plastiguage will tell you.
you've had oil changes.. was the viscosity of the oil changed.. ie.. 40W down to 30W
possible "minor" loss there
it was turned and i did buy oversize rings like im supposed to lol .020 is quite a bit of slop for them things to not notice. actually when i put it all together with the assembly lube the crank was nice and snug when trying to turn it over by hand, but moved very smoothly when using the crank turning tool. and no i didnt switch weights at all
I am betting its a bearing... better to be safe I would pull the motor and check everything out!
if you couldn't turn the crank by hand freely without using a tool your main's were off. either due to a piece of something under main cap or bearing or crank or torque. You should ALWAYS be able to spin the crank freely by hand!
When the rods and pistons are hooked up its a different story
threadjack, but KYLE! BryanK^^^^^ is the owner of Bad Obsession
Quote from: ToughBowtieTruck on January 15, 2012, 12:29:29 AM
No, that's probably rod/main bearings.
I'm suspicious of that engine, head gaskets going bad during break-in? If any coolant found its way to the oil that could have set the bearings up for failure.
Quote from: 7d9_z28 on January 16, 2012, 10:15:42 PM
threadjack, but KYLE! BryanK^^^^^ is the owner of Bad Obsession
small world! if ya guys need anything let me know ive built 3 high performance engines, i ain't no pro but i do know a bit
And nice pic of my truck!
I suspect something wrong on this motor too, Im thinkin internal. They wont run good on low oil pressure so somethins goin on and yup Id pull the pan. Seems like it never did run quite right either. We ARE talkin about the same motor as in the other thread, right? If the bearings are showin a copper colored spot, put the pan back on it with a couple bolts and pull it out. If it was me, I would be figurin out the cause of the premature failure or I would not put THAT motor back together, ever. No guessin, gotta KNOW, cuz its too much $$$ to waste.
When building an engine, Plastigage everything and check a couple different spots on each journal. Its cheap, and it dont lie. Gotta be gentle when you put the parts together and dont let them turn. Dry, no oil. Always use it when building. Checkin the crank might take all day, but how many days did you spend at work to buy that motor? ;D
yeah its the same motor... its been naggin him since the start...
Quote from: Bryank on January 16, 2012, 11:51:19 PM
Quote from: 7d9_z28 on January 16, 2012, 10:15:42 PM
threadjack, but KYLE! BryanK^^^^^ is the owner of Bad Obsession
small world! if ya guys need anything let me know ive built 3 high performance engines, i ain't no pro but i do know a bit
And nice pic of my truck!
hell yea! thats awsome! and thanks man!
Quote from: Bryank on January 16, 2012, 09:11:01 PM
if you couldn't turn the crank by hand freely without using a tool your main's were off. either due to a piece of something under main cap or bearing or crank or torque. You should ALWAYS be able to spin the crank freely by hand!
When the rods and pistons are hooked up its a different story
it wasnt THAT hard to turn and i wasnt reefing on the tool to turn it. tool just made it smooth as butter
well what i managed to do today way changed out the sensor just to see whatd happen.... pulls bout 60 cold on start and slowly idles down to bout 20ish psi at idle(750rpms) and will drop down to 15-17ish under load idle(550rpms) and when i take it down the road itll climb up to bout 40 depending on the rpms
Quote from: Kyle on January 17, 2012, 01:28:24 AM
Quote from: Bryank on January 16, 2012, 11:51:19 PM
Quote from: 7d9_z28 on January 16, 2012, 10:15:42 PM
threadjack, but KYLE! BryanK^^^^^ is the owner of Bad Obsession
small world! if ya guys need anything let me know ive built 3 high performance engines, i ain't no pro but i do know a bit
And nice pic of my truck!
hell yea! thats awsome! and thanks man!
Quote from: Bryank on January 16, 2012, 09:11:01 PM
if you couldn't turn the crank by hand freely without using a tool your main's were off. either due to a piece of something under main cap or bearing or crank or torque. You should ALWAYS be able to spin the crank freely by hand!
When the rods and pistons are hooked up its a different story
it wasnt THAT hard to turn and i wasnt reefing on the tool to turn it. tool just made it smooth as butter
well what i managed to do today way changed out the sensor just to see whatd happen.... pulls bout 60 cold on start and slowly idles down to bout 20ish psi at idle(750rpms) and will drop down to 15-17ish under load idle(550rpms) and when i take it down the road itll climb up to bout 40 depending on the rpms
So now theres nothin wrong, sounds like. Well, it sounds like to me that we can type faster than you can fix your truck. we've already pulled the motor and tore it down, youll have to hurry to catch up with us on here! ==roll
Well I ain't outta the woods yet... after puttin some extra miles on it and really lettin the oil warm up and get up to temp, the psi has dropped another 5psi. Somethin definately ain't right. I bought a gm performance high volume standard pressure pump and a new pickup screen and ill prolly be installing it this week/weekend. And ill pull a main cap off and see what it looks like, maybe a rod cap too, I really don't wanna take a bunch off cuz they're all sequenced
Quote from: Kyle on January 16, 2012, 06:09:27 PM
Quote from: Hammerlane on January 16, 2012, 05:35:21 PM
Quote from: Bowtie972 on January 16, 2012, 02:26:28 AM
Plastigage is cheap and easy. you can get it at most part stores. Costs a few bucks for a strip about 12" or so. it looks like dental floss, you lay a small piece across the crank and put the cap back on and torque it. Then remove the cap and the plastigage will be flattened out, on the package it came in there will be a chart, match the width of the flattened piece to the chart and it will tell you your bearing clearance. If your within the specs called for your engine should be good. I always do this with no oil on crank, check all the rods and mains, if all looks good clean off the plastigage and coat w/ oil or breakin lube.
Plastigage is a quick check just to make sure there were no mistakes at mach shop, or a wrong /mismarked bearing.
x2 if your crank was turned you need oversize bearings, if your crank was turned and stock bearinings went in you
will show low pressure, it's whats called an "internal leak".
that's what the plastiguage will tell you.
you've had oil changes.. was the viscosity of the oil changed.. ie.. 40W down to 30W
possible "minor" loss there
it was turned and i did buy oversize rings like im supposed to lol .020 is quite a bit of slop for them things to not notice. actually when i put it all together with the assembly lube the crank was nice and snug when trying to turn it over by hand, but moved very smoothly when using the crank turning tool. and no i didnt switch weights at all
eh.. as long as you've got the pan down.. take the oversize rings out of the crank.. they go on the pistons. ;D
Keep starting it, just a few more times and your almost guaranteed to ruin your crank
Quote from: Squirell on January 17, 2012, 11:24:29 PM
Keep starting it, just a few more times and your almost guaranteed to ruin your crank
yep mine only ran a few 1-2 mins with lower than normal oil pressure and my crank needs polish amd my bearings are shot..
Same here. Trashed a new crank and bearings because I didn't do the full break-in. Had to set it right to work to move. Bye bye lower end.
Got 4000 miles out of it though with 20w50 oil ;D
Well I've been still driving it around and seems to be holding up ok. Still holds bout 15 at idle..... but if it were a bearing, which ones would it be likely to be? Just the mains? Or rods and mains?
if your still driving it and any bearing was going I bet they all are now..
oh and after I fixed my low oil pressure issue I had 75 psi and still had bad bearings..
it's your mains or cam bearings, you can spin a rod bearing and still run good oil pressure
So what would the motor do with bad bearings if it had them? Make noise when its under heavy loads? I did the old fashioned way of checkin em by doin a brakestand without spinnin the wheels and there weren't any noises comin from the motor or it runnin rough bein under all that load
if it's your mains you might not hear anything,till it seizes up lol. Sometimes ya here a little noise about 3 grand when cam bearings go bad but very little. Rod bearings you here when ya bump up the rpm's a little 1500-2500 rpm.
100 percent- if after you torqued your mains and went to spin the crank IF you could not spin it totally freely, im talking spin with your fingers and it did not spin and spin by itself a few times TEAR it back apart the main bearings are gonna show copper where it's screwed up if not worse.
Had similar issue in my last motor...started up held 40 tho 50 then within a couple minutes it was down to 15-20. It made no noise and it turned out to be rod bearings. If you want to waste some money keep running it!
I don't wanna be the dick to say this but..... that motor needs to come out. The damage is already done, and will only get worse and wipe more parts out.... sounds like your rotating assembly wasn't assembed right. Too much oil clearence causing oil pressure loss. Wrong bearings, antifreeze in oil washed them out, could be a number of things. I highly doubt its your oil pump. They're a gear style pump and RARELY fail.
Jerk the motor, redo the lower end.... no big deal
Idk. Ya guys may be right with a bad bearing, but unfortunately for me I don't have a heated garage to be doin all this work in.... I have a garage that my truck don't fit in and a little torpedo heater.....
Ive been watching it closely all the time and it hasn't been dropping below 20psi at idle, so im just gonna have to keep watchin it till spring when its a lil warmer out and I wont be havin to wheel a cherry picker around in the snow unless the psi falls off completely in which ill just shut it down where it is and tow it. And if one of these weekends if it gets to round the 40s and it ain't snowin like crazy over here ill just drop the pan and change the pump anyways
Quote from: Kyle on January 20, 2012, 08:12:37 AM
Idk. Ya guys may be right with a bad bearing, but unfortunately for me I don't have a heated garage to be doin all this work in.... I have a garage that my truck don't fit in and a little torpedo heater.....
Ive been watching it closely all the time and it hasn't been dropping below 20psi at idle, so im just gonna have to keep watchin it till spring when its a lil warmer out and I wont be havin to wheel a cherry picker around in the snow unless the psi falls off completely in which ill just shut it down where it is and tow it. And if one of these weekends if it gets to round the 40s and it ain't snowin like crazy over here ill just drop the pan and change the pump anyways
good luck hope a rod dont jump out the block one day!
Quote from: betterbeaters on January 20, 2012, 12:13:14 PM
Quote from: Kyle on January 20, 2012, 08:12:37 AM
Idk. Ya guys may be right with a bad bearing, but unfortunately for me I don't have a heated garage to be doin all this work in.... I have a garage that my truck don't fit in and a little torpedo heater.....
Ive been watching it closely all the time and it hasn't been dropping below 20psi at idle, so im just gonna have to keep watchin it till spring when its a lil warmer out and I wont be havin to wheel a cherry picker around in the snow unless the psi falls off completely in which ill just shut it down where it is and tow it. And if one of these weekends if it gets to round the 40s and it ain't snowin like crazy over here ill just drop the pan and change the pump anyways
good luck hope a rod dont jump out the block one day!
wouldnt it make some noise if its about to do that?
I have had them make noise and I have had them just exit with just low oil pressure.. its 50/50 if you ask me.. but with the money you got in it I wouldnt take the chance of still driving it. but thats me and I dont have the money to fix my motors every year!
Quote from: betterbeaters on January 20, 2012, 12:26:32 PM
I have had them make noise and I have had them just exit with just low oil pressure.. its 50/50 if you ask me.. but with the money you got in it I wouldnt take the chance of still driving it. but thats me and I dont have the money to fix my motors every year!
yea i dont like taking the chances either, but its my dd
how far would i need to go if i took it apart? just the bottom end? or cam and all too?
when i spun mine it made all kinda noises just saying.....
Just the bottom end need to come out, but if you are still driving out like this the motor will need to come out be tore down and the Mains will need to be line bored, crank or rods resized...by running out farther your just costing yourself more money every time you turn the key
Quote from: Squirell on January 20, 2012, 05:28:45 PM
Just the bottom end need to come out, but if you are still driving out like this the motor will need to come out be tore down and the Mains will need to be line bored, crank or rods resized...by running out farther your just costing yourself more money every time you turn the key
x2 You will also need cam bearings, maybe even a cam, and its probably got shavings all through it. If you dont pull it and clean it completely (hot tank) youre just gonna have the same premature failure over and over. Im gonna take a wild guess and say when the 80 jets flooded it, raw fuel blew by the rings and got in the oil pan, thinned the oil out and got some shavings started circulating through the motor, they ground up the bearings, and the rest is history. Im just guessin. It may run till spring or even spring of 2015 - who knows? But if its your DD, you want reliability.
Quote from: old school truck dude on January 20, 2012, 10:01:42 PM
Quote from: Squirell on January 20, 2012, 05:28:45 PM
Just the bottom end need to come out, but if you are still driving out like this the motor will need to come out be tore down and the Mains will need to be line bored, crank or rods resized...by running out farther your just costing yourself more money every time you turn the key
x2 You will also need cam bearings, maybe even a cam, and its probably got shavings all through it. If you dont pull it and clean it completely (hot tank) youre just gonna have the same premature failure over and over. Im gonna take a wild guess and say when the 80 jets flooded it, raw fuel blew by the rings and got in the oil pan, thinned the oil out and got some shavings started circulating through the motor, they ground up the bearings, and the rest is history. Im just guessin. It may run till spring or even spring of 2015 - who knows? But if its your DD, you want reliability.
it ran maybe 10 mins on those 80 jets and it wasnt really that bad
it ran maybe 10 mins on those 80 jets and it wasnt really that bad
[/quote]
i flooded a motor in less than a minute when a float stuck it dont take long. but i would assume that to be the problem as old school truck dude said. but my advice is...you want to save money in the long run. stop running this motor. you need 7psi for every thousand rpm. so unless your keeping this motor under 2000 rpm. i would stop driving it. other wise your goin to need a block when a rod exits stage left with or without warning
Quote from: Squirell on January 20, 2012, 11:18:35 PM
it ran maybe 10 mins on those 80 jets and it wasnt really that bad
[/quote]
i flooded a motor in less than a minute when a float stuck it dont take long. but i would assume that to be the problem as old school truck dude said. but my advice is...you want to save money in the long run. stop running this motor. you need 7psi for every thousand rpm. so unless your keeping this motor under 2000 rpm. i would stop driving it. other wise your goin to need a block when a rod exits stage left with or without warning
[/quote]
i get that no doubt, but its getting at least that. its been gettin bout 20psi at 1k and is up to 40 at 2k
excuses and beating around it is going to screw you big time kyle. just because this=that or, that isnt quite exactly the same,or however you want to warp the story, these guys are right. If you keep it going you're gunna destroy it. stick the nose in the garage, seal it off, turn on the heater, and drop the pan. you can determine from that inspection if it will need to be torn down or not.
you are my best friend, I cant let this happen to you! ++peace
five stages of grief:
Denial-where you are
Anger
Bargaining
Depression
Acceptance-where you need to be
if it's at 20 idiling and 40+ running down the road that's not that bad. But if it gets lower and starts making any noises i'd definately shut her down but in your circumstance i understand your problem. It'd be nice if ya had a spare 350 to throw in for a temp,maybe you can find a decent one for $200 and run that till yours is fixed?
Quote from: 7d9_z28 on January 21, 2012, 12:40:18 AM
excuses and beating around it is going to screw you big time kyle. just because this=that or, that isnt quite exactly the same,or however you want to warp the story, these guys are right. If you keep it going you're gunna destroy it. stick the nose in the garage, seal it off, turn on the heater, and drop the pan. you can determine from that inspection if it will need to be torn down or not.
x2
Quote from: Bryank on January 21, 2012, 01:30:33 AM
if it's at 20 idiling and 40+ running down the road that's not that bad. But if it gets lower and starts making any noises i'd definately shut her down but in your circumstance i understand your problem. It'd be nice if ya had a spare 350 to throw in for a temp,maybe you can find a decent one for $200 and run that till yours is fixed?
he still ahs the tbi 350 that was in it running when he put the 408 in... but convincing him to pull the 408 in the first place is the tough part! :)
Well if he's got a spare than that's a no brainer what's it take couple hours wrenching to swap em out? come on kyle just swap em out! lol just pickin
Lots of good readin here, yup ;D
it was cheaper to have the shop put it together for the money. thay would be working it. or it would running great for him!!!!! when I work at a mechine shop it is fun when guys would tell you thay could put a motor together, and thay would come back with motor screw up.
==cuss
thats just to good to be bad right???... talked to the machine shop that did all the work and they couldnt give me an exact answer as to what could do that to it so he said i could bring it down there and they could inspect the lower end to make sure it wasnt line honed off or anything on their part and theyd do it all for free
what dose the rest of them look like. and who put it togther ? looks allmost like someone put the wrong main cap on the wrong spot. i all most need to see the hole pic to realy know. your olney showing us what you want us to see ==dunno
kyle put it together.
I put it together, and the main caps were all put back in the same order cuz I used a punch to mark the order and the block was supposedly line honed by the machine shop. And I wasn't tryin to hide part of the bearing on the pic cuz it all looks like that. Was just tryin to show more of the edge that had the color transition
That looks pretty bad, needs to come completely apart probably got shavins all through it. Lotta work ahead on it :(
did you have the oil holes lined up right
Quote from: Kyle on January 25, 2012, 01:50:25 AM
I put it together, and the main caps were all put back in the same order cuz I used a punch to mark the order and the block was supposedly line honed by the machine shop. And I wasn't tryin to hide part of the bearing on the pic cuz it all looks like that. Was just tryin to show more of the edge that had the color transition
i'm sorry if i said somthing the wrong way. just trying to help ya out. ive been building motors for 25 yrs.
that just what it look like to me. or a main cap can be put on backwords to
the little tabs should be on the same side to.
Quote from: Ranger Dave on January 26, 2012, 02:11:49 AM
Quote from: Kyle on January 25, 2012, 01:50:25 AM
I put it together, and the main caps were all put back in the same order cuz I used a punch to mark the order and the block was supposedly line honed by the machine shop. And I wasn't tryin to hide part of the bearing on the pic cuz it all looks like that. Was just tryin to show more of the edge that had the color transition
i'm sorry if i said somthing the wrong way. just trying to help ya out. ive been building motors for 25 yrs.
that just what it look like to me. or a main cap can be put on backwords to
the little tabs should be on the same side to.
naw sall good i understand. everything was assembled the way it was supposed to be to the best of my knowledge. all in the same order all with the arrows facing towards the front.
im pulling the motor tomorrow and bringin it down the shop so they can have a look at the bottom end to see if i have any shavings floating around or if it just was from the coolant or a wrong bearing or something
Quote from: Kyle on January 26, 2012, 02:27:49 AM
Quote from: Ranger Dave on January 26, 2012, 02:11:49 AM
Quote from: Kyle on January 25, 2012, 01:50:25 AM
I put it together, and the main caps were all put back in the same order cuz I used a punch to mark the order and the block was supposedly line honed by the machine shop. And I wasn't tryin to hide part of the bearing on the pic cuz it all looks like that. Was just tryin to show more of the edge that had the color transition
i'm sorry if i said somthing the wrong way. just trying to help ya out. ive been building motors for 25 yrs.
that just what it look like to me. or a main cap can be put on backwords to
the little tabs should be on the same side to.
naw sall good i understand. everything was assembled the way it was supposed to be to the best of my knowledge. all in the same order all with the arrows facing towards the front.
im pulling the motor tomorrow and bringin it down the shop so they can have a look at the bottom end to see if i have any shavings floating around or if it just was from the coolant or a wrong bearing or something
You have shavings in your oil without a doubt judging by the appearance of that bearing. No "if" on that. Its up to you as for how long you want your motor to last on the new build. That bearing looks like it has 250,000 miles on it. Im not tryin to be rude or offensive, just statin the facts. If Im guessin about somethin, I will say so.
ya just looking at a pic of one part, and not the rest. is all juess work. ==dunno
got a call from them today. they got it apart. i guess i had a little bit of over spray in the oil filter boss and they think thats more than likely what killed it. althogh there were no major traces of shavings in the pan that they found its gonna just get torn all back down and cleaned out just to be on the safe side.... damn shame. paints gonna get all messed up again....
Paint 'er with a cheap filter on it.
That little bit of paint inside the oil filter won't hurt it. I highly doubt it....
Quote from: Kyle on January 28, 2012, 05:27:04 PM
got a call from them today. they got it apart. i guess i had a little bit of over spray in the oil filter boss and they think thats more than likely what killed it. althogh there were no major traces of shavings in the pan that they found its gonna just get torn all back down and cleaned out just to be on the safe side.... damn shame. paints gonna get all messed up again....
Sounds kinda shady to me but hey just make sure it's done right this time. If you would have plastigauged it you would have known if it was the machine work or whatever was good to begin with. thats what its for man!
Quote from: Bryank on January 29, 2012, 05:07:21 PM
Quote from: Kyle on January 28, 2012, 05:27:04 PM
got a call from them today. they got it apart. i guess i had a little bit of over spray in the oil filter boss and they think thats more than likely what killed it. althogh there were no major traces of shavings in the pan that they found its gonna just get torn all back down and cleaned out just to be on the safe side.... damn shame. paints gonna get all messed up again....
Sounds kinda shady to me but hey just make sure it's done right this time. If you would have plastigauged it you would have known if it was the machine work or whatever was good to begin with. thats what its for man!
x2 can't just throw rotating assemblies together without checking proper clearances. Saves a lot of headache.
Well this motor has had a few things in it it that it ain suppsed to have tho either..... so its hard to tell. Im just goin by what they've told me
Ive seen guys paint the insides on some of them and it never hurt a thing. I never did, I thought it was a waste and kinda dumb. Have to be ALOT of paint to stop up the motor, I would think.
Sounds like a excuse to get out of warranty work
Quote from: Squirell on January 30, 2012, 10:11:54 PM
Sounds like a excuse to get out of warranty work
could be, but i just want it to get done. its there, they got it apart. if i go and take it to some other place ill still get charged for the same work
Yup, kinda sounds like that, I hope that aint true. Ive seen alot of things get covered up and called somethin else in my days. I could make a list of Dealer Garage rip-offs that would make your hair stand on end, done seen a bunch of them. Come in for an oil change n buy a motor loll
Sometimes its better to stick with the devil you do know instead of the devil ya don't...
how many cans did you use on it? come on it is not paint.thank of this what happen when the old timming gear (nolyn gears and silcone) got into oil pump pick ups. but as long as you get it back and good to go that is the main thing for you.
got to talk to the engine builder this morning. turns out all the other bearings werent nearly as bad as the one i pulled off. most of the main issues with the others were just the factory burrs on the bearings, and it was probably coolant that killed the one bearing. otherwise there wasnt any dirt issues underneat the bearings when i assembled them. nothin nessesarily wrong from me assembling it tho which is the good thing