looking for some trac/ladder bars. i dont even know where to start looking, or the different types i should go with. im just looking for somthing just for bogging
ill have lockers and built power.
any help or info is greatly appreciated.
just build them forddgal forddgal
Can use anything really. As long as its strong and welded good to the rear end.
Or bolted
Anything bolted solid will limit axle travel...look at the ones puddlejumper has on his comp bigger project. Easy and fairly cheap to build.
i planned on building them. but i wanted a design to work from. but i also had a few questions.
if i had a trac bar going from the rear axle to frame, the only way for the trac bar to travel is up and down, so the only way the axle could move would be (up and back, torwards the rear) and (down and forward) the length of the bar is constant and is fixed at one end to one point. but will move in a arc.
wouldnt you want the bars to swivel?
and if the bars were fixed this way, the entire axle would have to move "up or down" at the same time and rate, you wouldnt be able to "flex" at all?
im very confused on the path of motion everything is suppose to move.
Quote from: Jthomas on March 13, 2012, 07:10:55 PM
i planned on building them. but i wanted a design to work from. but i also had a few questions.
if i had a trac bar going from the rear axle to frame, the only way for the trac bar to travel is up and down, so the only way the axle could move would be (up and back, torwards the rear) and (down and forward) the length of the bar is constant and is fixed at one end to one point. but will move in a arc.
wouldnt you want the bars to swivel?
and if the bars were fixed this way, the entire axle would have to move "up or down" at the same time and rate, you wouldnt be able to "flex" at all?
im very confused on the path of motion everything is suppose to move.
by using heim joints you will have a little flex but ladder bars are to stop latteral movement ie:front to back, and rotation of the axle. and i would imagine there wouldnt be that much "flex" either as in the left wheel goes up so will the right eventually
but it all depends on what you plan on doing with the truck.
If your looking for flex I would suggest doing a 4 link and coils and shocks, you can flex till your heart desires with that :)
Quote from: xjs3667 on March 13, 2012, 07:25:21 PM
Quote from: Jthomas on March 13, 2012, 07:10:55 PM
i planned on building them. but i wanted a design to work from. but i also had a few questions.
if i had a trac bar going from the rear axle to frame, the only way for the trac bar to travel is up and down, so the only way the axle could move would be (up and back, torwards the rear) and (down and forward) the length of the bar is constant and is fixed at one end to one point. but will move in a arc.
wouldnt you want the bars to swivel?
and if the bars were fixed this way, the entire axle would have to move "up or down" at the same time and rate, you wouldnt be able to "flex" at all?
im very confused on the path of motion everything is suppose to move.
by using heim joints you will have a little flex but ladder bars are to stop latteral movement ie:front to back, and rotation of the axle. and i would imagine there wouldnt be that much "flex" either as in the left wheel goes up so will the right eventually
but it all depends on what you plan on doing with the truck.
If your looking for flex I would suggest doing a 4 link and coils and shocks, you can flex till your heart desires with that :)
not really looking for that much flex, i just want to be able to drive over a rock without streching/braking a leaf, or drive over it and both wheels lift, then i tip over.
please anyone post up pics of yours
so i figured out that im getting confused between ladder bars and trac bars. i DO NOT want ladder bars, i want trac bars. i now know the difference.
but what type of joint do i use? and what do i use to mount it to the frame and axle?
you don't want "trac bars" either they go from one side of the axle to the other another name for them is "panhard bar" . You are looking for a "traction bar" there are many ways to build them. you can either make sure the arc is small enough that it won't bind the suspension, or let it bind and say to h*** with it, or you can build in some way for the bar to change length such as either a slip joint or a shackle setup.
Just remember on a leaf spring setup the ladder bar or traction bars are only there to stop axle wrap. They are not there to locate the axle in any way, so the forces on them will only be trying to rotate the end of the bar up and down and a ladder bar is far better at doing that. ==2cents.
here's a few pics of the ladder bar setup I built for my jeep works GREAT and I'm running a single ladder bar.
(http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m29/mudbuster/jeep/100_0391.jpg) (http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m29/mudbuster/jeep/100_0391.jpg)
(http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m29/mudbuster/jeep/100_0392.jpg) (http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m29/mudbuster/jeep/100_0392.jpg)
(http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m29/mudbuster/jeep/100_0394.jpg) (http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m29/mudbuster/jeep/100_0394.jpg)
^^^ see the only reason I don't want ladder bars is because the hang below the axle.
Quote from: Jthomas on March 14, 2012, 12:58:00 PM
^^^ see the only reason I don't want ladder bars is because the hang below the axle.
[/quote
Its ok if they are below the axle as you can see in the pic the pumpkin is hanging down alot lower
Quote from: xjs3667 on March 14, 2012, 01:37:42 PM
Quote from: Jthomas on March 14, 2012, 12:58:00 PM
^^^ see the only reason I don't want ladder bars is because the hang below the axle.
[/quote
Its ok if they are below the axle as you can see in the pic the pumpkin is hanging down alot lower
x2 mabye you should look for slapper bars that go under the springs if your that worried about how they hang down?
Those are nicely fabbed, and one in the somewhat center Like that would allow your axle to pick up just one side a little more than if you ran 2 like u had said u wanted it to do.
What brackets should I use?
Quote from: Jthomas on March 14, 2012, 04:09:47 PM
What brackets should I use?
make your own, get some steel cut and weld, and by using bushings like he did will give you more flex too
Where should I mount to the frame? Like does the length of the bar have anything to do with it?
The longer the bars the more arch you will get the shorter the bars the arch will be tighter..... Idk how else to explain it lol take a pencil and hold the eraser and pivot it take note at how the arch is....now hold the pencil like at half and pivot it now notice how the arch is tighter, if that helps lol
Quote from: xjs3667 on March 14, 2012, 06:48:03 PM
The longer the bars the more arch you will get the shorter the bars the arch will be tighter..... Idk how else to explain it lol take a pencil and hold the eraser and pivot it take note at how the arch is....now hold the pencil like at half and pivot it now notice how the arch is tighter, if that helps lol
Lol I understand. But wich one is best for DD and bogging/trails.
I made mine for under $100, 2 58" scedual 80 pipe, and 2 TSC hiems cut n weld, scrap 1/4" plate for brackets
Quote from: Boggen Joe on March 14, 2012, 10:51:41 PM
I made mine for under $100, 2 58" scedual 80 pipe, and 2 TSC hiems cut n weld, scrap 1/4" plate for brackets
Thank you.
the longer the better as long as it doesn't sacrifice strenght. plus you'll have to get under your truck and see where you can mount it because every truck is different depending on what people have done to it, and remember there will be ALOT of force out at the end so make sure whatever it's mounted to isn't going to bend.
Quote from: Mudbuster on March 14, 2012, 11:06:36 PM
the longer the better as long as it doesn't sacrifice strenght. plus you'll have to get under your truck and see where you can mount it because every truck is different depending on what people have done to it, and remember there will be ALOT of force out at the end so make sure whatever it's mounted to isn't going to bend.
If I drilled holes in my frame to mount the mounts to, would it weaken it?
I would think you'd be fine as long as you don't use like 1/4" bolts loll
Quote from: Mudbuster on March 15, 2012, 12:10:12 AM
I would think you'd be fine as long as you don't use like 1/4" bolts loll
Ok that's what I thought. Thanks.
Ps. What joints swivel 360 that I could weld to the ladder bar?
Ps. What joints swivel 360 that I could weld to the ladder bar?
[/quote]
Heim joints pic 1
or you could use bushings pic 2
I can't use anything threaded because it won't twist, It would either shorten or tighten if it was twisting.
thats what the lock nut is for you need to have it threaded so you can make adjustments on it and after you have it all set up, weld it.
I dont think they make heim joints that are not threaded, someone please correct me if im wrong and expand my knowlidge lol but I cant find any that aren't
but thats all Ive done, its much nicer to be able to adjust it in and out than to have to keep cutting the tube down untill you cut to far then you have to start over
oh and after its all welded up it will twist not tighten or loosen
Quote from: xjs3667 on March 15, 2012, 01:09:51 AM
thats what the lock nut is for you need to have it threaded so you can make adjustments on it and after you have it all set up, weld it.
I dont think they make heim joints that are not threaded, someone please correct me if im wrong and expand my knowlidge lol but I cant find any that aren't
but thats all Ive done, its much nicer to be able to adjust it in and out than to have to keep cutting the tube down untill you cut to far then you have to start over
oh and after its all welded up it will twist not tighten or loosen
Ok sweet.
You have to have a bar on top of the axle tube and one mounted below to eliminate most of the axle wrap, The best wat to set them up is so they are at the same angle as the driveshaft. Also bushings at the axle, and a heim at the top with a shackle. if the housing and the bar are storng enough you will only need to make 1 bar. that will allow the most spring flex. Tsc tractor joints get Really sloppy when used on a dd wehicle.
Quote from: Red97 on March 15, 2012, 01:56:41 AM
You have to have a bar on top of the axle tube and one mounted below to eliminate most of the axle wrap, The best wat to set them up is so they are at the same angle as the driveshaft. Also bushings at the axle, and a heim at the top with a shackle. if the housing and the bar are storng enough you will only need to make 1 bar. that will allow the most spring flex. Tsc tractor joints get Really sloppy when used on a dd wehicle.
Good info. Where do I font the heim joints and bushings joints?
Idk what places are around you but I get all my stuff like that at mid state nut & screw google them and give em a call im sure they can ship stuff to ya
Quote from: xjs3667 on March 15, 2012, 02:44:39 AM
Idk what places are around you but I get all my stuff like that at mid state nut & screw google them and give em a call im sure they can ship stuff to ya
What about fastenal?
make sure you get them one left and one right hand thread and you dont have to weld anything
Quote from: the harvester on March 20, 2012, 12:30:43 AM
make sure you get them one left and one right hand thread and you dont have to weld anything
thanks